Odd Figure Out - Expert Level: different shading EXPERT

Comprehensive self assessment worksheet covering 20 expert-level odd figure out problems. Worksheet 28 of 30 emphasizes different shading. Master visual oddity, shape distinction, image difference through detailed explanations. Difficulty: challenging problems and time-bound practice. Tailored for expert-level preparation.

📝 Worksheet 28 of 30 • 20 questions • ⏱️ Estimated time: 20 minutes • 🎯 Expert level

What you'll learn in this worksheet:
Your progress through Odd Figure Out
Worksheet 28 of 30 (93% complete)

Question 1

Find the odd figure out based on nesting relationship. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Analyze the nesting structure
- Each figure contains two shapes in a nested arrangement
- Identify the outer shape and inner shape for each figure
- Note the relationship between outer and inner elements

Step 2: Identify the common nesting pattern
- Four figures have a SQUARE as the outer shape and a CIRCLE as the inner shape
- This establishes the pattern: Square → Circle (from outside to inside)
- The outer-to-inner relationship is consistent

Step 3: Detect the reversed nesting
- Figure B has a CIRCLE as the outer shape and a SQUARE as the inner shape
- This is the REVERSE nesting order: Circle → Square
- The hierarchical relationship is inverted

Step 4: Verification through layer analysis
- Four figures: Outer = Square, Inner = Circle
- One figure (Figure B): Outer = Circle, Inner = Square
- The nesting sequence is opposite

Advanced Relationship Analysis:
- Nesting implies containment hierarchy
- The order matters: A contains B is different from B contains A
- This tests understanding of spatial relationships and ordering

Systematic Approach:
1. Identify outer boundary shape
2. Identify inner contained shape
3. Note the outer→inner sequence
4. Compare sequences across all figures
5. Find the one with different sequence

Common Mistakes:
- Only noticing that both shapes are present, missing the order
- Confusing size differences with nesting order
- Not recognizing that nesting direction is the key property
- Thinking all nested figures are equivalent regardless of which is outer

Question 2

Find the odd figure out based on polygon properties. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Identify the geometric shapes
- Count the number of sides for each polygon
- Classify each shape by its number of sides

Step 2: Analyze the mathematical property
- Four figures are polygons with an EVEN number of sides (4 or 6 sides)
- These include squares (4 sides) and hexagons (6 sides)
- Even-sided polygons share specific symmetry properties

Step 3: Detect the odd polygon
- Figure B is a pentagon with 5 sides (ODD number)
- This breaks the even-sided polygon pattern
- Pentagon belongs to the odd-sided polygon category

Step 4: Mathematical verification
- Even numbers: 4, 6 (divisible by 2)
- Odd number: 5 (not divisible by 2)
- Four figures have even sides; one (Figure B) has odd sides

Advanced Property Analysis:
- Even-sided regular polygons have both diagonal and edge-to-edge symmetry
- Odd-sided regular polygons only have vertex-to-edge symmetry
- This is a deeper mathematical distinction beyond visual appearance

Systematic Counting Method:
- Count sides carefully for each polygon
- Classify as even or odd
- Identify the numerical outlier

Common Mistakes:
- Confusing shape names with their properties
- Not counting sides systematically
- Missing the even/odd mathematical distinction
- Focusing on size rather than side count

Question 3

Find the odd figure out based on shading/pattern. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Analyze shading patterns in all figures
- Examine the internal pattern/shading of each figure
- Identify the type of fill or line pattern used

Step 2: Identify the common pattern
- Four figures use diagonal lines as their shading pattern
- This establishes the standard visual pattern
- The consistency indicates this is the grouping criterion

Step 3: Find the differently shaded figure
- Figure B uses solid pattern
- This is distinctly different from the common pattern
- The shading/pattern breaks visual uniformity

Step 4: Verification
- Four figures: diagonal lines pattern
- One figure (Figure B): solid pattern
- Clear visual distinction confirmed

Pattern Analysis Method:
- Focus on the interior design of shapes
- Ignore shape type, focus on filling/shading
- Look for consistency in line direction, density, or fill type

Common Mistakes:
- Confusing shape type with shading pattern
- Not distinguishing between similar-looking patterns
- Focusing on external boundaries instead of internal patterns

Question 4

Find the odd figure out from the given options. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Analyze all figures for common properties
- Examine each figure to identify the basic shape used
- Figure A through E each contain a single geometric shape

Step 2: Identify the pattern
- Figures at positions other than A all contain pentagons
- These four figures share the common property of being the same shape

Step 3: Find the odd figure
- Figure A contains a square, which is different from the others
- This figure breaks the pattern of uniformity

Step 4: Verify the answer
- Four figures: pentagon
- One figure: square
- Figure A is clearly the odd one out

Common Mistake to Avoid:
Don't focus on size or color variations; focus on the fundamental shape property.

Question 5

Find the odd figure out. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Identify edge types in each figure
- Check if figure has straight lines, curves, or both

Step 2: Find the common pattern
- Four figures contain both straight AND curved edges
- These are hybrid shapes combining both geometric elements

Step 3: Detect the odd figure
- Figure B has only straight edges
- This figure lacks the combination property

Step 4: Verification
- Four figures: Both straight and curved edges
- One figure (Figure B): only straight edges

🎯 Advanced Analysis: This tests ability to notice when a figure is missing a property that others share.

Question 6

Find the odd figure out. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Identify edge types in each figure
- Check if figure has straight lines, curves, or both

Step 2: Find the common pattern
- Four figures contain both straight AND curved edges
- These are hybrid shapes combining both geometric elements

Step 3: Detect the odd figure
- Figure E has only curved edges
- This figure lacks the combination property

Step 4: Verification
- Four figures: Both straight and curved edges
- One figure (Figure E): only curved edges

🎯 Advanced Analysis: This tests ability to notice when a figure is missing a property that others share.

Question 7

Find the odd figure out based on multiple properties. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Multi-property systematic analysis
- This is an advanced problem requiring analysis of MULTIPLE properties
- Check: (1) Shape type, (2) Number of elements, (3) Shading/fill

Step 2: Analyze Property 1 - Shape Type
- Four figures contain CIRCLES
- One figure (Figure B) contains TRIANGLES
- First difference detected: Shape type

Step 3: Analyze Property 2 - Element Count
- Four figures contain 3 shapes each
- One figure (Figure B) contains 2 shapes
- Second difference detected: Quantity

Step 4: Analyze Property 3 - Shading/Fill
- Four figures have UNFILLED (outline only) shapes
- One figure (Figure B) has FILLED (solid) shapes
- Third difference detected: Shading

Step 5: Comprehensive verification
- Four figures: 3 circles, unfilled
- One figure (Figure B): 2 triangles, filled
- ALL THREE properties differ in Figure B

Advanced Multi-Property Analysis:
This is a CAT/GMAT/UPSC level problem testing:
- Ability to analyze multiple dimensions simultaneously
- Systematic comparison methodology
- Not being distracted by partial similarities
- Understanding that multiple properties can define a group

Systematic Multi-Property Approach:
1. Create a property checklist
2. Evaluate each property across all figures
3. Note which figures share each property
4. Identify the figure that differs on most/all properties
5. Verify your conclusion across all dimensions

Common Mistakes:
- Stopping after finding one difference (may not be conclusive)
- Not checking all properties systematically
- Being distracted by irrelevant properties (like position)
- Missing that ALL properties differ, not just one
- Rushing without systematic analysis

Expert Tip: In complex problems, create a mental or written table comparing all properties.

Question 8

Find the odd figure out based on polygon properties. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Identify the geometric shapes
- Count the number of sides for each polygon
- Classify each shape by its number of sides

Step 2: Analyze the mathematical property
- Four figures are polygons with an EVEN number of sides (4 or 6 sides)
- These include squares (4 sides) and hexagons (6 sides)
- Even-sided polygons share specific symmetry properties

Step 3: Detect the odd polygon
- Figure D is a pentagon with 5 sides (ODD number)
- This breaks the even-sided polygon pattern
- Pentagon belongs to the odd-sided polygon category

Step 4: Mathematical verification
- Even numbers: 4, 6 (divisible by 2)
- Odd number: 5 (not divisible by 2)
- Four figures have even sides; one (Figure D) has odd sides

Advanced Property Analysis:
- Even-sided regular polygons have both diagonal and edge-to-edge symmetry
- Odd-sided regular polygons only have vertex-to-edge symmetry
- This is a deeper mathematical distinction beyond visual appearance

Systematic Counting Method:
- Count sides carefully for each polygon
- Classify as even or odd
- Identify the numerical outlier

Common Mistakes:
- Confusing shape names with their properties
- Not counting sides systematically
- Missing the even/odd mathematical distinction
- Focusing on size rather than side count

Question 9

Find the odd figure out based on polygon properties. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Identify the geometric shapes
- Count the number of sides for each polygon
- Classify each shape by its number of sides

Step 2: Analyze the mathematical property
- Four figures are polygons with an EVEN number of sides (4 or 6 sides)
- These include squares (4 sides) and hexagons (6 sides)
- Even-sided polygons share specific symmetry properties

Step 3: Detect the odd polygon
- Figure B is a pentagon with 5 sides (ODD number)
- This breaks the even-sided polygon pattern
- Pentagon belongs to the odd-sided polygon category

Step 4: Mathematical verification
- Even numbers: 4, 6 (divisible by 2)
- Odd number: 5 (not divisible by 2)
- Four figures have even sides; one (Figure B) has odd sides

Advanced Property Analysis:
- Even-sided regular polygons have both diagonal and edge-to-edge symmetry
- Odd-sided regular polygons only have vertex-to-edge symmetry
- This is a deeper mathematical distinction beyond visual appearance

Systematic Counting Method:
- Count sides carefully for each polygon
- Classify as even or odd
- Identify the numerical outlier

Common Mistakes:
- Confusing shape names with their properties
- Not counting sides systematically
- Missing the even/odd mathematical distinction
- Focusing on size rather than side count

Question 10

Find the odd figure out based on internal element position. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Analyze internal element positioning
- Each figure contains an outer square and an inner circle
- Examine where the inner circle is positioned within the square

Step 2: Identify the common position
- Four figures have the inner circle in the bottom left position
- This positioning is consistent across these four figures
- The corner placement establishes the pattern

Step 3: Find the differently positioned figure
- Figure B has the inner circle in the center position
- This is a fundamentally different placement
- The central position breaks the corner-based pattern

Step 4: Verification through spatial analysis
- Divide each square into quadrants or use center reference
- Four figures: Circle in bottom left
- One figure (Figure B): Circle in center

Positional Analysis Strategy:
- Mentally divide shapes into grid sections
- Use coordinates (top/bottom, left/right, center)
- Compare relative positions systematically
- Look for the position that doesn't match the majority

Common Mistakes:
- Not establishing a clear reference frame
- Confusing approximate positions with exact positions
- Focusing on shape types instead of positions

Question 11

Find the odd figure out based on internal element position. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Analyze internal element positioning
- Each figure contains an outer square and an inner circle
- Examine where the inner circle is positioned within the square

Step 2: Identify the common position
- Four figures have the inner circle in the bottom left position
- This positioning is consistent across these four figures
- The corner placement establishes the pattern

Step 3: Find the differently positioned figure
- Figure A has the inner circle in the center position
- This is a fundamentally different placement
- The central position breaks the corner-based pattern

Step 4: Verification through spatial analysis
- Divide each square into quadrants or use center reference
- Four figures: Circle in bottom left
- One figure (Figure A): Circle in center

Positional Analysis Strategy:
- Mentally divide shapes into grid sections
- Use coordinates (top/bottom, left/right, center)
- Compare relative positions systematically
- Look for the position that doesn't match the majority

Common Mistakes:
- Not establishing a clear reference frame
- Confusing approximate positions with exact positions
- Focusing on shape types instead of positions

Question 12

Find the odd figure out based on internal element position. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Analyze internal element positioning
- Each figure contains an outer square and an inner circle
- Examine where the inner circle is positioned within the square

Step 2: Identify the common position
- Four figures have the inner circle in the bottom right position
- This positioning is consistent across these four figures
- The corner placement establishes the pattern

Step 3: Find the differently positioned figure
- Figure C has the inner circle in the center position
- This is a fundamentally different placement
- The central position breaks the corner-based pattern

Step 4: Verification through spatial analysis
- Divide each square into quadrants or use center reference
- Four figures: Circle in bottom right
- One figure (Figure C): Circle in center

Positional Analysis Strategy:
- Mentally divide shapes into grid sections
- Use coordinates (top/bottom, left/right, center)
- Compare relative positions systematically
- Look for the position that doesn't match the majority

Common Mistakes:
- Not establishing a clear reference frame
- Confusing approximate positions with exact positions
- Focusing on shape types instead of positions

Question 13

Find the odd figure out based on orientation. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Analyze orientation of all figures
- Examine the direction each arrow/shape is pointing
- Note the rotational angle of each figure

Step 2: Identify the common orientation
- Four figures are oriented in the same direction
- They share a common rotational angle of approximately 90°
- These figures maintain consistent directional alignment

Step 3: Detect the differently oriented figure
- Figure A is rotated approximately 270° (opposite direction)
- This figure faces the opposite direction compared to the others
- The orientation breaks the established pattern

Step 4: Verification through comparison
- Align figures mentally or trace their directions
- Four figures point one way, Figure A points the opposite way

Orientation Analysis Strategy:
- Use reference points (top, bottom, left, right)
- Compare arrow directions or shape alignments
- Look for the outlier in directional facing

Common Mistakes:
- Confusing mirror reflection with rotation
- Not establishing a clear reference direction
- Ignoring subtle angular differences

Question 14

Find the odd figure out based on multiple properties. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Multi-property systematic analysis
- This is an advanced problem requiring analysis of MULTIPLE properties
- Check: (1) Shape type, (2) Number of elements, (3) Shading/fill

Step 2: Analyze Property 1 - Shape Type
- Four figures contain CIRCLES
- One figure (Figure E) contains TRIANGLES
- First difference detected: Shape type

Step 3: Analyze Property 2 - Element Count
- Four figures contain 3 shapes each
- One figure (Figure E) contains 2 shapes
- Second difference detected: Quantity

Step 4: Analyze Property 3 - Shading/Fill
- Four figures have UNFILLED (outline only) shapes
- One figure (Figure E) has FILLED (solid) shapes
- Third difference detected: Shading

Step 5: Comprehensive verification
- Four figures: 3 circles, unfilled
- One figure (Figure E): 2 triangles, filled
- ALL THREE properties differ in Figure E

Advanced Multi-Property Analysis:
This is a CAT/GMAT/UPSC level problem testing:
- Ability to analyze multiple dimensions simultaneously
- Systematic comparison methodology
- Not being distracted by partial similarities
- Understanding that multiple properties can define a group

Systematic Multi-Property Approach:
1. Create a property checklist
2. Evaluate each property across all figures
3. Note which figures share each property
4. Identify the figure that differs on most/all properties
5. Verify your conclusion across all dimensions

Common Mistakes:
- Stopping after finding one difference (may not be conclusive)
- Not checking all properties systematically
- Being distracted by irrelevant properties (like position)
- Missing that ALL properties differ, not just one
- Rushing without systematic analysis

Expert Tip: In complex problems, create a mental or written table comparing all properties.

Question 15

Find the odd figure out based on nesting relationship. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Analyze the nesting structure
- Each figure contains two shapes in a nested arrangement
- Identify the outer shape and inner shape for each figure
- Note the relationship between outer and inner elements

Step 2: Identify the common nesting pattern
- Four figures have a SQUARE as the outer shape and a CIRCLE as the inner shape
- This establishes the pattern: Square → Circle (from outside to inside)
- The outer-to-inner relationship is consistent

Step 3: Detect the reversed nesting
- Figure E has a CIRCLE as the outer shape and a SQUARE as the inner shape
- This is the REVERSE nesting order: Circle → Square
- The hierarchical relationship is inverted

Step 4: Verification through layer analysis
- Four figures: Outer = Square, Inner = Circle
- One figure (Figure E): Outer = Circle, Inner = Square
- The nesting sequence is opposite

Advanced Relationship Analysis:
- Nesting implies containment hierarchy
- The order matters: A contains B is different from B contains A
- This tests understanding of spatial relationships and ordering

Systematic Approach:
1. Identify outer boundary shape
2. Identify inner contained shape
3. Note the outer→inner sequence
4. Compare sequences across all figures
5. Find the one with different sequence

Common Mistakes:
- Only noticing that both shapes are present, missing the order
- Confusing size differences with nesting order
- Not recognizing that nesting direction is the key property
- Thinking all nested figures are equivalent regardless of which is outer

Question 16

Find the odd figure out based on shading/pattern. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Analyze shading patterns in all figures
- Examine the internal pattern/shading of each figure
- Identify the type of fill or line pattern used

Step 2: Identify the common pattern
- Four figures use dots as their shading pattern
- This establishes the standard visual pattern
- The consistency indicates this is the grouping criterion

Step 3: Find the differently shaded figure
- Figure E uses horizontal lines pattern
- This is distinctly different from the common pattern
- The shading/pattern breaks visual uniformity

Step 4: Verification
- Four figures: dots pattern
- One figure (Figure E): horizontal lines pattern
- Clear visual distinction confirmed

Pattern Analysis Method:
- Focus on the interior design of shapes
- Ignore shape type, focus on filling/shading
- Look for consistency in line direction, density, or fill type

Common Mistakes:
- Confusing shape type with shading pattern
- Not distinguishing between similar-looking patterns
- Focusing on external boundaries instead of internal patterns

Question 17

Find the odd figure out based on multiple properties. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Multi-property systematic analysis
- This is an advanced problem requiring analysis of MULTIPLE properties
- Check: (1) Shape type, (2) Number of elements, (3) Shading/fill

Step 2: Analyze Property 1 - Shape Type
- Four figures contain CIRCLES
- One figure (Figure D) contains TRIANGLES
- First difference detected: Shape type

Step 3: Analyze Property 2 - Element Count
- Four figures contain 3 shapes each
- One figure (Figure D) contains 2 shapes
- Second difference detected: Quantity

Step 4: Analyze Property 3 - Shading/Fill
- Four figures have UNFILLED (outline only) shapes
- One figure (Figure D) has FILLED (solid) shapes
- Third difference detected: Shading

Step 5: Comprehensive verification
- Four figures: 3 circles, unfilled
- One figure (Figure D): 2 triangles, filled
- ALL THREE properties differ in Figure D

Advanced Multi-Property Analysis:
This is a CAT/GMAT/UPSC level problem testing:
- Ability to analyze multiple dimensions simultaneously
- Systematic comparison methodology
- Not being distracted by partial similarities
- Understanding that multiple properties can define a group

Systematic Multi-Property Approach:
1. Create a property checklist
2. Evaluate each property across all figures
3. Note which figures share each property
4. Identify the figure that differs on most/all properties
5. Verify your conclusion across all dimensions

Common Mistakes:
- Stopping after finding one difference (may not be conclusive)
- Not checking all properties systematically
- Being distracted by irrelevant properties (like position)
- Missing that ALL properties differ, not just one
- Rushing without systematic analysis

Expert Tip: In complex problems, create a mental or written table comparing all properties.

Question 18

Find the odd figure out based on multiple properties. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Multi-property systematic analysis
- This is an advanced problem requiring analysis of MULTIPLE properties
- Check: (1) Shape type, (2) Number of elements, (3) Shading/fill

Step 2: Analyze Property 1 - Shape Type
- Four figures contain CIRCLES
- One figure (Figure C) contains TRIANGLES
- First difference detected: Shape type

Step 3: Analyze Property 2 - Element Count
- Four figures contain 3 shapes each
- One figure (Figure C) contains 2 shapes
- Second difference detected: Quantity

Step 4: Analyze Property 3 - Shading/Fill
- Four figures have UNFILLED (outline only) shapes
- One figure (Figure C) has FILLED (solid) shapes
- Third difference detected: Shading

Step 5: Comprehensive verification
- Four figures: 3 circles, unfilled
- One figure (Figure C): 2 triangles, filled
- ALL THREE properties differ in Figure C

Advanced Multi-Property Analysis:
This is a CAT/GMAT/UPSC level problem testing:
- Ability to analyze multiple dimensions simultaneously
- Systematic comparison methodology
- Not being distracted by partial similarities
- Understanding that multiple properties can define a group

Systematic Multi-Property Approach:
1. Create a property checklist
2. Evaluate each property across all figures
3. Note which figures share each property
4. Identify the figure that differs on most/all properties
5. Verify your conclusion across all dimensions

Common Mistakes:
- Stopping after finding one difference (may not be conclusive)
- Not checking all properties systematically
- Being distracted by irrelevant properties (like position)
- Missing that ALL properties differ, not just one
- Rushing without systematic analysis

Expert Tip: In complex problems, create a mental or written table comparing all properties.

Question 19

Find the odd figure out based on symmetry properties. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Analyze symmetry in all figures
- Check each figure for lines of symmetry
- Determine if figures have rotational or reflective symmetry

Step 2: Identify common symmetry property
- Figures other than B all possess clear symmetry
- These shapes have at least one line of symmetry (vertical, horizontal, or both)
- Circles have infinite lines of symmetry
- Regular polygons have multiple lines of symmetry

Step 3: Detect the asymmetric figure
- Figure B is an irregular polygon with no lines of symmetry
- This figure cannot be divided into mirror-image halves

Step 4: Verification
- Four figures: Symmetric shapes
- One figure: Asymmetric shape (Figure B)

Symmetry Check Method:
- Draw imaginary lines through the center
- Check if both halves are mirror images
- Figure B fails this test

Common Mistake: Confusing similar-looking shapes with truly symmetric ones.

Question 20

Find the odd figure out based on nesting relationship. Figure A: Figure B: Figure C: Figure D: Figure E:
Step-by-step Solution:

Step 1: Analyze the nesting structure
- Each figure contains two shapes in a nested arrangement
- Identify the outer shape and inner shape for each figure
- Note the relationship between outer and inner elements

Step 2: Identify the common nesting pattern
- Four figures have a SQUARE as the outer shape and a CIRCLE as the inner shape
- This establishes the pattern: Square → Circle (from outside to inside)
- The outer-to-inner relationship is consistent

Step 3: Detect the reversed nesting
- Figure C has a CIRCLE as the outer shape and a SQUARE as the inner shape
- This is the REVERSE nesting order: Circle → Square
- The hierarchical relationship is inverted

Step 4: Verification through layer analysis
- Four figures: Outer = Square, Inner = Circle
- One figure (Figure C): Outer = Circle, Inner = Square
- The nesting sequence is opposite

Advanced Relationship Analysis:
- Nesting implies containment hierarchy
- The order matters: A contains B is different from B contains A
- This tests understanding of spatial relationships and ordering

Systematic Approach:
1. Identify outer boundary shape
2. Identify inner contained shape
3. Note the outer→inner sequence
4. Compare sequences across all figures
5. Find the one with different sequence

Common Mistakes:
- Only noticing that both shapes are present, missing the order
- Confusing size differences with nesting order
- Not recognizing that nesting direction is the key property
- Thinking all nested figures are equivalent regardless of which is outer
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